A Discussion with Bettye Kelly and Barbra Marks BY: TODD BEEBE
There are a select few artists whose names will be on “The Mount Rushmore of The Blues” until the end of time. One of those names is Chester Burnett, the Howlin’ Wolf. Born on June 10, 1910, he is one of the most unique and influential artists of all time. His recordings for Chicago’s Chess label (with early releases being recorded at Sun Studio in Memphis) have become benchmarks for blues music.
Public figures such as Wolfman Jack took Howlin’ Wolf’s act and ran with it—but make no mistake, there is only one Howlin’ Wolf! Sam Phillips, who discovered Elvis Presley, Johnny Cash, Jerry Lee Lewis and countless blues artists at Sun Studio in Memphis, always said Howlin’ Wolf was his greatest find. Sam is quoted as saying: “When I heard him, I said, ‘This is for me. This is where the soul of man never dies’. He would sit there with his feet planted wide apart, playing nothing but the French harp, and I tell you, the greatest show you could see today would be Chester Burnett doing one of those sessions in my studio.” God, what would it be worth to see the fervor in that man’s face when he sang. “His eyes would light up and you’d see the veins on his neck, and buddy, there was nothing on his mind but that song. He sang with his damn soul.” Wolf’s influence on music is so widespread, it’s impossible to measure. In 1972, he was awarded an honorary Doctor of Arts degree from Columbia College in Chicago. His song “Smokestack Lightning” was inducted into the Blues Foundation’s Blues Hall of Fame in 1985. In 1999 The Grammy Hall of Fame listed it as a recording of lasting musical importance. “Smokestack” was ranked number 291 in “Rolling Stone’s” list of “The 500 Greatest Songs of All Time” in 2004, and in 2009, the recording was selected by the Library of Congress for the National Recording Registry. Howlin’ Wolf has won every award imaginable in the blues genre. He has been inducted into the Blues Hall of Fame, Memphis Music Hall of Fame, The Mississippi Musicians Hall of Fame, and The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1991.
With such a massive influence, many things have been written about Howlin’ Wolf. There have been countless tales and myths which seem to grow larger with each passing year. Countless pieces have been written through the years by many who never knew the man at all. Meet Barbra Marks and Bettye Kelly. As the daughters of Howlin’ Wolf, they knew him better than anyone. Bettye and Barbra sat with me for an official interview to set the record straight on so many topics about their father — to find out who the real Howlin’ Wolf was. Ladies and gentlemen, this is the real Howlin’ Wolf!
Todd Beebe: To start, when was the first time you heard your father’s music and what was your first reaction to it?
Barbra Marks: It’s been a lot of years, but my first time seeing him was actually the Shindig show. They did it and he came home and he was actually asleep the night they broadcast it and I’m looking like, “is that the man that....?” You know? And he was like, “oh, I’m asleep.” But we were watching of course, anxiously, because that may have been the first time a black Blues musician had ever been on national television. That was my first time, and I couldn’t believe that’s the same man who says “don’t do this or don’t do that”, you know? I didn’t really know what he actually did. You know, it’s funny when you’re a teenager, and I was a teenager back then! Yeah, that was my first encounter, I believe it was Shindig.
Bettye Kelly: Oh, gosh! I Heard his music back in the late 50’s, early 60’s on our local radio station, WLAC in Nashville, Tennessee. It would come on at night and play a lot of the Blues artists. We would hear our dad, we would hear B.B. King, I mean, the list goes on and on. That’s when I first remember hearing his recordings.
BM: Randy’s Record Mart, I think, used to play the music. We were in the rural south at the time and that’s the only music we could hear basically, on radio at the time.
BK: But I think I’m in agreement with Barbra in terms of the first time I saw him perform was on Shindig. And that was a proud moment for us! I know it was for him too. But like Barbra said, I don’t think he even saw it the night we did! But that was the kind of person he was.
TB: Barbra you mentioned earlier when we were speaking, how your father didn’t like HOWLIN Wolf. He always liked HOWLING, with the “G” on there, right?
BM: Yes! The record company or somebody changed it, like they thought it was more catchy the other way. But yeah, he started out with the “G” on.
BK: You will see some documents, some things that end with “ing”- HOWLING. I remember giving Marie Dixon (Willie Dixon’s wife) an appreciation plaque and that’s how I spelled it, because that was my thinking: I think he appreciated H-O-W-L-I-N and G better than just “N” and an apostrophe.
BM: And “Howling” is actually the
correct spelling for the word. Again, if I remember the story correctly, either his booking agency or Chess Records, someone decided to take the “G” off.
TB: One of the biggest myths I’ve read about your father is that he couldn’t sign his name. I read something a while ago from a man who claims he knew your father. I want to read a little bit of what he said and then get your thoughts about it: (regarding Howlin’ Wolf autographs) “there are probable forgeries out there. I did many concerts with Howlin Wolf, had many cash receipts, bar receipts, hotel receipts, and he could not write. He had his own sign, but no signature. So all the autographs are fake. I once took him to Ohio State for a public interview as publicity for an upcoming show. He sat with 100 students and put his sign on lots of fliers for the show. But they were all a sign, not his signature.” And what this person meant by “sign” is one of those rubber stampers.
BK: No. That is absolutely not true! He could sign his own signature and he could read at a certain level. He couldn’t read for a while, up to a high school level. But after going back to school, after going back to do studies, he was able to. He’s always been able to sign his name.
BM: Yeah, he did night school to learn to read and write. No, that’s not true that he didn’t sign.
BK: He’s been able to sign forever.
BM: He went to music school too, during the day and then played at night. But he went back, with our mother’s urging. He did go to learn. And she was helpful to him in doing those things too! But no, he was literate enough to sign his own name: Chester A. Burnett
BK: Oh most definitely!
BM: As a matter of fact, I have his passport, where he signed it.
BK: And his driver’s license where he signed that. We’ve got proof. The answer is yes! He was able to sign a very clear, legible signature. You knew what it was.
TB: There’s this stereotypical image of a bluesman, and I think your father just destroyed that because he never went on stage drunk which had a huge impact on me, especially as a kid. Back then, everyone told me “Oh, you’re gonna have to drink a lot if you’re going to play blues. His conduct reminded me that I didn’t need to do that.
BK: And let me add this: He did not allow his musicians to perform drunk. There have been times when you’ve been sent home, if you’d been drinking. You did not play or perform with him if you’d been drinking.
BM: Right. He wanted his music just right. And he did drink scotch with milk.
BK: (laughs) Yuck!
BM: But we never saw him drunk. He said he refused a lot of marijuana and stuff, you know, while he was on the road, because, as you say, he didn’t fit the mold of most musicians of that day.
TB: And that’s great!
BM: He had a good head! He had mother wit and had a lot of sense. He may not have been very educated, but he had a lot of sense.
BK: He used logic and common sense a lot!
BM: And he saved his money! He didn’t take a Cadillac and a dog to match from the record company. He wanted his money, you know what I’m saying? Or from where he performed gigs. He meant what he said and said what he meant. He was a man among men. And I don’t think anybody has really disputed that. But no, he didn’t go on stage drunk. Like Bettye said, he didn’t even allow them (band members) and they would get fired, sent home. I used to do the payroll. He would dock their pay if they had drank and he told them not to. He’d say “after you’re finished, you can drink all you want, but not while you’re on my bandstand.”
TB: People also associate being a blues man with womanizing and chasing women, but not your father. I always loved this quote from your father about your mother: “She was a flower the first day I seen her. And as far as I’m concerned, she’s a flower now.” He had his wife at home and that was all he needed. I just thought, “I love that!”.
BM: And he called her golden actually, our mom. And to be honest with you, he loved the dirty water she bathed in. And anybody she loved, he loved.
BK: If he did any of those things, it was not exposed to us. And I’m a firm believer, I do believe that they were a very good example of love. She loved him. He loved her. And he looked out for his family. He was a responsible person. Actually, sometimes I think he was a little bit too strict, in terms of Barbra and I. But now that I’m an adult, I understand. Because I guess with him being out there in the world, seeing a lot of things happening, he wanted to make sure it didn’t happen to us. And believe you me, we respected that. Oh, we had to!
BM: He sheltered us from that life. That’s why we were surprised to see him on TV. He made sure his family life and that music life were separate things. He never stopped that. We eventually got to go to a few clubs or see a few performances, but he would tell them in a minute we were off limits, you know, for that life.
BK: I actually remember seeing him perform, I think twice. That was his very last performance at the Amphitheater on 43rd and Halsted. And he performed at my wedding, but Barbra went with him more.
BM: He performed at my wedding also.
TB: Would you go to see him at the clubs? Did you go down to a lot of those shows?
BM: There was a place called Alice’s and he did an album called Alice’s Revisited. It was a club up North where there were no seats. You’d lay on the floor, you know, while he entertained and I guess they were smoking weed and stuff. We didn’t do that but yeah, I used to go there. Yeah, I’ve seen him live, you know, a few times.
BK; Yeah, you saw him more than I did.
BM: Yeah. You got married by the time I grew up. Almost 19. I was 19, but you know, we didn’t hang in clubs or anything. But sometimes we would go. And my mother didn’t go a lot, but on New Year’s Eve or something like that. But yeah, I don’t know if you remember Alice’s and Eddie Shaw’s Place? I don’t think I really ever saw him play at Eddie’s place. After he passed, Jimmy Reed played for my Uncle’s birthday at Eddie’s place. Jimmy Reed didn’t live a lot longer than that. I remember that, but I don’t remember even, like you say, going to Eddie’s place. I did go to Silvio’s after the riots, you know, after King’s death. They used to put the liquors in the basement, and everything had been taken, the instruments and everything. That’s the only time I ever really saw him cry was after they had destroyed Silvio’s Lounge, which was his home base when he wasn’t on the road. They had a good friendship with them. They would go to their home for dinners and things, mom and him.
TB: Your father had the house that he and your mother lived in built right?
BM: Yes. He had that house built in 1963.
BK: And he paid cash for it! That was the kind of person he was. He made plans and he was blessed enough to take care of it and carry them out. Because as Barbra mentioned earlier, he was not frugal, he was careful. He thought wisely with his money.
TB: Obviously I didn’t know him at all. But from just listening to him and watching interviews, he seemed like such a smart guy.
BK: He was!
BM: He drove Pontiac Station Wagons, whereas all the rest of them drove Cadillacs with matching dogs, like I said. But to him, a Station Wagon, a Pontiac, was good enough to travel
with the band and take us, you know, if we were going somewhere. He didn’t believe in spending a lot of money. He was to some extent, you know, frugal. But then again, when he died, my mom could pay for his funeral. There’s a rumor that Eric Clapton paid for his headstone. That’s not true. I went to the bank with mom to get the money. The funeral home was right next to it, a couple of doors from there. The Rolling Stones sent a beautiful Birds of Paradise arrangement after the funeral, to the house. And they used to keep up with our mom. But I don’t know where the rumor got started that Eric Clapton paid for his headstone.
BK: That is the biggest lie ever told. I Don’t think he said that.
BM: Nobody has ever heard Eric Clapton say that. No, I don’t think Eric said that.
TB: I know you said your father was frugal, but did he ever buy you anything?
BK: He would always share with us. Barbra, I believe the first new car he bought you was a Firebird. Was it green and white?
BM: Yes! It was an army green Firebird, 1969.
BK: He always took care of us. The thing was, we had boundaries in terms of how we went out, how we were exposed, and the kind of company we kept. In other words, it was rightfully done.
BM: Just like any other dad who really cared!
BK: One Saturday morning I remember waking up and he said “I’m gonna go and buy you a car.” I said, “are you serious?!” We went to the dealership and he bought me a beautiful, brand new convertible, ‘66 Mustang. That car was a treasure. I enjoyed it so much! I don’t remember him ever riding in it, because he probably didn’t care.
BM: He couldn’t fit in it too much! (laughs)
BK: (laughs) But I remember that’s how he treated us. That’s what he did for us. He always made sure we had everything we wanted. And I suppose he had everything he wanted. Because he liked to fish, he liked to hunt, or he would order special dogs. The only time he liked to really dress up nice in a suit and so forth and so on, it would have to be a special occasion. He wasn’t the kind of person who had to walk up and down the street, be out in public, all flashy dressed. You would have loved him Todd! You would have loved him! He was so authentic. He was so laid back. He was so for real! Now, if you hear any of that, that is true.
TB: I’ve heard a number of stories about how mean he was
BM: Or he got mad at Muddy and he did this and that!
BK: Yeah, that is a bunch of mess too!
BM: It’s like nowadays the rappers said they say things to get more publicity, more sales, you know? And that’s really what was going on, the competition with the record companies and the producers and the radio thing. But it really was not true.
BK: He was a very helpful person. He contributed to some of the musicians or some of the bluesmen that didn’t have money. He shared. I’m not going to call any names, but he shared with them because he had a feeling for them. He knew they hadn’t taken care of themselves like they should have. So when things got really hard, I’m just using a common term, when they had needs, he helped them. BK: And when he left and went to heaven, he was not a broke man. He was not a disappointed man. He was a loved man, including loving himself! Because he knew he had done what he was supposed to do here.
TB: I had many conversations with Hubert Sumlin before he passed, and he told me they were down south somewhere and that your father tried to reconnect with his mother. Hubert said Howlin’ Wolf tried to put money into her pocket or something, and when she went to hug him she felt it and got mad. He said that really affected your dad, that she didn’t want to talk with him and all.
BM: Yeah, he asked for her on his dying bed, but she refused to come. My mother offered a plane, limo, or any way to get her here, but she didn’t. You know, Going Down Slow really became kind of a true epitaph for him. But yeah, they say she was like a street preacher or something. She was living when he died, but she would not come. He asked to see her and begged for her. He wanted his mother, of course, I guess, knowing that he was passing away. But she said it was the devil’s money that he made.
TB: I talked to Sam Lay before he passed away and he said that you would walk into one of Muddy’s shows and Muddy would always sit down while he played—it was more of a laid back thing. Then you’d walk into one of your father’s shows and he was just all over the stage!
BK: Yeah, our father was an entertainer. He gave you what you came for and what you paid for.
BM: And it’s amazing the people that still contact us or are on his website who just love him, you know what I’m saying? We looked at him as a dad, but they saw something that he couldn’t see or we couldn’t see. But his music definitely will touch your soul if you take your time and listen to it. I guess all music can, but his is a little different!
TB: Did your father also keep in touch with, Willie Johnson and those guys through the years, too?
BM: They would meet up at some of the shows from time to time, you know? Between work and traveling and the family, he didn’t socialize a whole lot.
BK: He would be too tired!
BM: Yeah, I guess. But I’m sure when they met up, it was just like old times. But I can’t remember too many of them. Koko Taylor used to come to the house. Willie Dixon, of course. I almost want to say Muddy has been there. They went to his house or somewhere.
BK: One of the temptations came to visit. One of The Rolling Stones came. And we lived in a kind of a “colony”, I named it. We lived near the Staple Singers, The Impressions. A lot of those entertainers. We were all kind of in a colony there in that same neighborhood, all the way from 87th and Cottage, St. Lawrence back to probably 89th or 90th. A lot of the entertainers, that was basically where they lived. We didn’t live far from where Mahalia Jackson lived. Ramsey Lewis. Pops Staples, he was a good friend of our dad’s! Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali, they all lived around there. And don’t forget, we talked about Hubert- Eddie Shaw played a very, very good part in all of our lives. As a matter of fact, I miss him because now that he’s gone, some of the things I wanted to do to, you know, pay tribute to my dad and so forth and so on, I feel like I’m short now. I feel like I can’t do them, because he would always guide me into them and he would always get the people that needed to do it. Yeah, because we did a tribute one year down at Blues Heaven and so many blues performers were there. We did something at the Blues Fest. A lot of people supported that, you know, different things that we’ve done for him. When Eddie was living he would always help us and guide us into it.
TB: Your father actually traveled with Robert Johnson and knew him? Did he ever talk about any of that stuff much, from the old days?
BM: No, not really. That was before our time, naturally. But no, not really. Not to us. Maybe to mom he might have, you know? But I can’t recall him really saying anything.
BK: I don’t either. I know Robert Johnson was part of his life, but I think I’ve read more of what he said or how he and Mr. Johnson were, you know, the kind of relationship they had. But I never recall him talking about it. And now that I think about it, I missed a lot, because he was dad. He’d leave to go to work and come back. You know, we didn’t put things together! Because had I known what he was and the impact and how he shared with the world, I would have recorded him and I would have gotten more! More information, more pictures. I would have kept more of his things than I did. But he was dad! And it was like, “Oh, okay, I hear him coming in. He’s been at work.” You know? “I hear him going out. He’s going to work!”
TB: He was probably—like you said, he was your dad, .,..so it wasn’t like “oh, there’s Howlin Wolf!”
BK: Exactly! Exactly!
BM: And we were into Motown back then!
BK: Yes, my goodness!
BM: We weren’t really into the blues, so you know, the truth be told, now we realize, you know what it is. But, you know, when you’re a teenager, you don’t really share that with your little friends or you don’t really know. Because you couldn’t hear them on the radio like you did Motown or anything.
TB: During that era, when you were kids/teenagers, would you listen to him at all?
BM: No! mom used to play him. We’d have some parties or something and she played the music. But no, we didn’t really seek it out because like I said, we weren’t attuned to it in that manner. I listen to it now. Most of the days I run into something and just hear him or see him, and I realize what the blues really is. But back then, you know, you just didn’t have a clue. I’m like, Bettye, I wish I had! There were people we met we could have taken pictures with who had really done things. But it just...he was like any other dad!
BK: Exactly!
BM: It just didn’t dawn on us how famous he really was or was going to become.
BK: He was a man who played in the White House. He did a lot of things that we didn’t think were important or made a difference at that time.
BM: He really didn’t either. But they were jobs, you know?
BK: I remember going to the Grammys, things like that, we didn’t even think of the importance of at the time. He was well thought of. But he had earned it, though! He had earned it!
BM: He was nominated. He never got the Grammy, but he was nominated and they had a dinner at Columbia College.
BK: Columbia College gave him an Honorary Doctorate and Bill Russell escorted Mama in to accept the Honorary Doctorate for my dad. I believe that was in ‘91 or ‘92.
TB: I have a couple of just fun questions here that I’d like to ask you both: Did your father have a favorite TV show? Did he like certain kinds of shows, like Westerns or Comedies?
BM: Cartoons on Saturday morning! You could hear him laughing from here to Memphis! Oh, he loved his cartoons! That was the only thing he really, really liked. I hear most men like cartoons. Actually I know some now who like cartoons!
TB: YES! I know I do! (laughs)
BM: He would laugh so loud at cartoons! I can’t remember the exact ones.
BK: Probably Deputy Dawg. Back in the day there was Deputy Dawg! Todd probably doesn’t know anything about that, he’s too young! But there was one called Deputy Dawg. It was actually a dog who was a sheriff! (laughs)
BM: And I guess Saturday morning was the only time... actually he would’ve worked Friday nights, but I guess he slept in and later.. I can hear him laughing now about those cartoons! (laughs) I couldn’t understand how a grown person, you know, an adult, really loved them. But now I hear that that’s a thing with men especially. (laughs)
TB: He did! That was on the Back Door Wolf album. Yeah that’s a great one! Any favorite foods? When he really wanted a meal that he loved, what would it have been?
BM: Wild game! My Mama cooked bear, she cooked squirrels. His favorite foods were wild game, but he really enjoyed mostly all foods. Soul food too. But yeah he loved wild game. He would hunt for some of them or buy them or whatever. I remember thinking I was eating steak one Sunday morning and he said, “You know what you’re eating, don’t you?” I said “Yes, it’s steak.” He said, “That’s bear meat.” And I was like, ready to throw up! (laughs) He said “Go ahead and eat it. It’s not gonna kill you!” But I was particular after that, about dipping into the pots! But he loved wild game.
TB: He did a lot of hunting too, right? And he loved his dogs?
BM: Yes! Bird dogs..
BK: That was his relaxed time. That was him gathering back into himself when he would go hunting. I think he liked to fish too, didn’t he?
BM: Yeah! He had a boat. He asked me to take care of his dogs during his last days. And that was a job, too. He had built them a run in our backyard. And they were spoiled!
BK: They must have been something rare, a rare breed, because he would order them. He would have to go to O’Hare to pick them up.
BM: But yes, he liked his hunting and fishing. He liked to eat, but he really preferred wild game to any of it I think.
BK: When it was time to relax, he knew what to do to relax.
BM: Yeah. He used to go to Hot Springs, Arkansas, once a year and take those mud baths and things. He had a way of coping with that life on the road, although it proved to be too hard on him and a lot of the rest of them. They couldn’t eat properly, they couldn’t sleep properly. And therefore most of their lives were cut short, because of the hard work they did just to do what they did.
TB: Right. If you both had to pick one, what would be your favorite song of your father’s?
BM: Like you said, all of them! But I think, Smokestack Lightning. I was thinking about Howlin’ For My Darlin. That’s not his song, but he sang it. But Smokestack Lightning definitely was his, both ways. So I guess that one! Were you down at the Blues Fest the year that they put that song into The Library of Congress?
TB: Oh yes! He really deserved that!
BM: It’s amazing! Like you said he has written a whole lot of them. But you can tell it’s him whenever you hear any one of them.
BK: Exactly. I think Spoonful is my favorite. I think I like the beat, not necessarily the lyrics, but it just does something for me. I can exercise with it. I can listen to it more than once.
BM: We’re about to go to Memphis soon. They want to award him something about Little Red Rooster. I guess it’s the way he sang it, because that’s not really his song.
BK: It’s for the Blues Music Awards.
BM: Yeah, down in Memphis next month. I guess he made the songs what they were. But then of course, Sam Cooke and a lot of people covered Little Red Rooster. I think you’ve mentioned that in your interviews, didn’t you Todd?
TB: Oh yeah! I’ve done a few articles about your father: a biography on him and album reviews through the years. I was interviewed a few weeks back and we spoke about Blues artists, and I kept saying “there’s blues singers and there’s Howlin’ Wolf.” (all laugh)
BM: Yeah, and I think again, that’s the fact he didn’t just sing or he didn’t just play-he entertained the audiences, you know?
BK: He made people happy!
BM: It’s what made him who he was I suppose. He was an entertainer. Little Richard and some kind of put on a show, but it wasn’t anything like he did. Buddy (Guy) is a good friend! He and our mom continued their friendship all the way to the end. And I run into him sometimes and if we’re ever at his place, you know, we’re special to him. Really!
BK: Yes, He is a very nice man.
BM: He doesn’t forget either, like you say, how they brought each other up, you know, they really did.
TB: It’s great because whenever he gives an acceptance speech or whatever, Buddy always mentions your father and Muddy. I think that’s great! So how do you think your dad would’ve felt knowing that he made it onto a postage stamp?
BM: That was something! Not a lot of people get their own postage stamp!
BK: I never thought about that!
BM: B.B. King told us, the day that he dedicated it, he said “Well, I’m glad it’s Wolf and not me, because you have to be dead to be on a stamp!” (all laugh)
BK: Yeah, he directly told me that! I said “Why?!” He said “because you’ve gotta be dead to get one!” I said “oh, ok!” B.B. King and Ruth Brown presented that to us.
BM: I really still think he would just be nonchalant about all of those accomplishments. I really do. He wasn’t moved by a lot of things. By most things, he really wasn’t. He was down to earth. You know, I always say no ego. I don’t know why I say that! It just seemed like he didn’t really know what he was doing and the impact he had!
BK: Which is true! He was fulfilled at what he was doing. So that was enough for him!
BM: I think he looked at it as “I’m taking care of me and my family, and this is a job that I could do.” You know? That’s how I think he thought of it, really. I really don’t think he thought of the creative part of all of it.
TB: I’m curious, do either of you still have any of your father’s guitars? I’m sure your mom had them? Are they still around or where did a lot of them end up?
BM: One of the guitars is in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland, and I understand Hubert’s wife had one that my mom gave to him after my dad died. I’m not sure about... you know, he didn’t buy a lot of guitars like a lot of people. You know, again, he was just a down to earth, common man, you know? But no. There are some exhibits that claim to be his guitars.
BK: I was going to say that.
BM: We can’t confirm or deny that they were his.
TB: As a kid, I was out with B.B. King all the time, so I knew Sid Seidenberg, B.B. ‘s Manager.
B.B. actually told me several times that one of the greatest things he ever heard was that at the last big show your father gave at the Amphitheater, he told everybody he wouldn’t leave until he saw B.B.—he wanted to see him play. B.B. thought that was fantastic! Especially since, I guess your dad wasn’t feeling too well after he performed.
BM: They took him to the hospital from that concert actually. Pervis Spann wanted him to follow that show to Memphis, B.B. and all of them went on to Memphis. But Mama said “No.” She knew that he wasn’t feeling well. I don’t think he ever came home from the hospital after that.
BK: Yes, he did. Because if you remember, I was the last one to take him to the hospital. I still can’t understand how I did it, how I got him in the car. You know, he was a big man. And my Aunt and I were the last two to be with him. I remember the last time that he was taken to the hospital, apparently he did come back home. And the last time he went to the hospital, I remember taking him myself because I can still see my mom standing in the front door, because she didn’t feel like she wanted to go. And I must have passed at least two squad cars. I was speeding. Nobody bothered me. Nobody stopped me. And he started feeling really bad. I pulled up on 43rd off the expressway. I stood him up. Excuse me, guys, he regurgitated. I put him back in the car and we ended up at Hines out in Hines, Illinois. And when we got there, I jumped out of the car, ran in, and the nurses came out and took him in. I do not know how I handled that big man that morning. It was about 3 or 4:00 in the morning. And I’m glad I did it. I don’t regret doing it. Why didn’t I call an ambulance? I don’t know.
TB: Huh. Wow. That’s so....before it got to that point, your father would actually travel and stuff a bit with a dialysis machine, right?
BM: Right. They would do it in different states. Mom would set it up. She would have to set it up with the hospitals before he left for the job. And they would do it, you know, while he was out on the road.
BK: You’d have to plan it. Like any dialysis patient.
BM: Yeah, you would have to plan where and when they were gonna do it. Our mom actually did it in our basement for the longest time. In the beginning, when he was home, she did it after, you know, they first taught her and they put a machine in the basement. It looked like a large washing machine. And 2 or 3 times a week, she’d take all his blood out, clean it, put it back, you know, and he’d be a little weak. But yeah, she actually learned to do that. And when he was home, as I said, she set up because I guess she knew the dynamics of it with the hospitals on the road, wherever he was.
TB: This is a little off topic, but your mom was very behind the business side of things right? Like, your father offered unemployment insurance to his band and stuff like that. And I’ve always heard that behind all that really was your mother.
BK: She did, yes.
BM: They had accountants and people they consulted with, but yeah, everybody in the blues community respected her for the way she did handle his business. And a lot of them tried to pattern after that and a lot of them asked her to help them do it, you know, But for some reason, again, she wasn’t highly educated, but she had that mother wit, you know, to protect him. I guess when she met him, he said he had been abused and used by a lot of people. And she took it upon herself to make sure it didn’t happen anymore.
TB: Well, it’s amazing, even by today’s standards, to hear that blues artists are protected with unemployment insurance. That’s not a super common thing. So back then, that was completely unheard of!
BM: That’s true!
BK: Even today, I don’t think it’s only the blues community. I think it’s some of the other communities. Musicians complain, you often see things where things are not done, that they give them a check at the end of the week, and you offer yourself, if you need some hospitalization, some Social Security, some whatever, however, you have to do it yourself. Because they treat them as being self-employed.
TB: Well thank you both so much! First of all I really appreciate both of you and your friendship. And I also thank you so much for your time today.
BM: Todd, let us thank you publicly, for doing this. All these years later, for having this interest, and wanting to keep his memory and his Legacy going. Thank you very much!
BK: I would like to, and I’m sure I’m speaking for the whole family: his grandchildren, his in-laws, everybody- we thank you Todd, for allowing us to speak the truth about our father. And by all means, to clear up some of the lies that have been told. Barbra and I gave you the truth! I would like for him to be remembered, as a matter of fact, I know he is- as a very good person. He loved what he did. He enjoyed making people happy. He enjoyed entertaining people. He loved his family. His family loved him. And he’s resting at peace. He’s resting at peace.
BM: I always say he made his own Legacy before he left. And I don’t think anybody can destroy that. Whatever’s untrue, people may believe that in their heart. And maybe some of it is true. But we knew nothing about any of the really negative things that you hear. We just didn’t. And I don’t know of any negativity that’s connected with him. He was straight up. He was just straight up for who he was. I always say a man among men. But, you know, it’s amazing how with this new, you know, the Internet and all that, you see something every day! That’s one thing- we can never forget him. We can’t really lay him to rest like we could our mom or somebody else, you know? Because he’s constantly being brought up. And truth be told, I’ve been told by friends and family that you hear more about him these days than most of the musicians from that era, you know?
BK: It must have been something he did, right!
BM: Thank you again for doing this Todd. Because nobody has to remember and do stuff like this, this many years after he’s left this earth. So we really appreciate it!
BK: Thank you Todd!
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